I don't know if it's been invented... but...

"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:31 • Filed to: None

I had a great idea pop into my head when I was eating. A car that runs purely off of air and electricity . Has it been released yet? I think it’s a mind-blowing idea, and will put many new technologies into effect.

DISCUSSION (57)

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:34

Don’t quite know how you are planning to get that to work. You often run into issues with the laws of thermodynamics.

TheHondaBro > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 17:34

Electric jet engine?

LongbowMkII > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 17:35

Compressed air? Didn’t Renault have a air/electric hybrid concept a few years back?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > LongbowMkII
03/08/2017 at 17:36

There are engines which work that way but you need something compressing the air for you.

Wobbles the Mind > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:37

Like a Tesla pirate ship?! I love it!!

Orange Exige > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:37

Are you referring to that new battery technology in which the battery is charged by reacting with the air? If so - or any way I suppose - we’re probably quite far out from any feasible implementation.

Think of how long lithium ion batteries have been around and the fact that some/most (I don’t think all- yet?) hybrid and electric are just using lithium ion now...

LongbowMkII > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 17:37

Hence the electric power

MonkeePuzzle > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:38

Nibby > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:39

just add watts and voltage

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > LongbowMkII
03/08/2017 at 17:39

It is so much more efficient to just use the electricity to drive the wheels. There are a ton of losses in driving an electric motor to compress air which then gets used to drive an engine which drives the car.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:46

Uhhhh... it’s not really a great idea.

JohnH3ASP > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 17:51

Highly compressed air is forced through a turbine, which is connected to the wheels. Turbine also spins generator.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 17:52

It works! And, dammit, it’s already been done.

JohnH3ASP > Nibby
03/08/2017 at 17:53

WAAAAAATSSSSS

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:53

Sure, it works, but not well.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 17:55

Where’s the compressed air coming from? Compressing air requires a ton of energy and you are essentially venting through a turbine.

JohnH3ASP > MonkeePuzzle
03/08/2017 at 17:55

I can do that.

JohnH3ASP > Orange Exige
03/08/2017 at 17:58

I’ll make it in SketchUp soon, but basically, here’s how it works.

Highly compressed air is stored in a large metal container. Valve that opens the container is operated by the throttle.

Air moves into a turbine, which spins the wheels.

Air also spins another turbine which spins a generator, that produces electricity, that goes to a battery, which goes to a motor, which drives the wheels.

Also, under braking, large flaps open up and stuff the container full of air.

JohnH3ASP > Wobbles the Mind
03/08/2017 at 17:58

Yay finally a supporter.

JohnH3ASP > Wobbles the Mind
03/08/2017 at 17:58

And not at all like a ship.

JohnH3ASP > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 18:06

Compressors, like many people have in their garages. Or one of those tire refilling places that gas stations have.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 18:07

But, think about it, you will never have to pay for gas. Ever again.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 18:10

However, you still have to pay for something to compress the air, and the fact that the range of a tested vehicle was 7.2 kilometres means that your car is basically useless. I’d rather walk that.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 18:17

Ok, storing that air on the vehicle is going to be an issue. As you drain air out of your pressure vessel the pressure drops rapidly. In robotics we had a 2L vessel pressurized to 110psi. We could trigger a pneumatic cylinder 5 times before the pressure reached a point where the cylinder started becoming weaker in its actuation. The compressor we had on the robot to re-pressurize the system when it dropped below 80psi used more power than every other system on the robot combined when it was running.

Air pressure disappears very quickly when you start using it and requires a lot of energy to maintain.

tromoly > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 18:45

Holy efficiency losses batman, you’re expecting to move more than 15 feet with that arrangement?

MrDakka > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 18:56

It’s been tried many times before and it’s just never measured up to competing energy storage systems for mass adoption.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car

JohnH3ASP > tromoly
03/08/2017 at 19:59

Yes. Once the air gets the motors spinning, it will rocket off.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 20:00

It would basically be a small city car. But what about turbocharging? That would work just fine.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 20:06

... what? None of what you just said makes any sense. Small city car my arse! 7.2 kilometres is absolutely nothing. That would limit you to a 3.6 kilometre radius at best. It’s useless.

Also, turbocharging? EDIT BECAUSE I FORGOT HOW TO TURBO, BUT IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 20:11

[citation needed]

tromoly > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 20:46

How long does that supply last? Your energy density is so low compared to other methods, not to mention the possible danger of super high pressures.

Further, why convert some to electricity and incur losses just to drive the wheels again, which is more losses? Why double your losses when it’s not necessary to do so?

I’d love to see your calculations behind this, if you don’t mind sharing them.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 21:15

Turbo uses exhaust gases to suck in air.

JohnH3ASP > tromoly
03/08/2017 at 21:16

I’m going to share a sketchup file soon.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 21:20

So you need the exhaust to spin a compressor to cause air to be pushed in faster to produce more power. I understand, but I don’t think it’s going to do a whole lot to improve anything. I’m not an engineer, but it seems like the efficiency losses in introducing a system like that would only make things worse.

LastFirstMI is my name > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
03/08/2017 at 21:44

So you just bring along a little gas-powered air compressor. Duh.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 22:07

Here’s the link to the SketchUp file, just download it. It’s a 3D SketchUp file, which I had no idea existed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7TAQBqPurFMTUl2WXJFMC1BYkU/view?usp=sharing

Here’s a key:

Dark Grey = Air Bottle (Contains Compressed Air)

Green = Driveshaft (Goes To Wheels)

Blue + Red = Magnet

Yellow = Coil Of Copper Wire

(Blue + Red) + Yellow = Generator (Spun By Driveshaft)

Pink = Wire (To Batteries, From Generator)

Well, it will work. I think.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 22:11

Nope, not downloading files from strangers on the internet.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 22:19

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7TAQBqPurFMeExORHhXTmtoRTA/view?usp=sharing

There, a video instead. And BTW, google drive scans for viruses.

CB > tromoly
03/08/2017 at 22:19

There are no calculations. You should have known that when this statement appeared:

“Also, under braking, large flaps open up and stuff the container full of air.”

That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 22:22

That may be one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen on this forum. As previously stated, I am not an engineer by any means, but this does not make any sense.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 22:28

Air spins a turbine, which spins a generator, and both are used to make power. Not bad, eh?

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 22:32

So what’s your efficiency and distance per tank?

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 22:38

I haven’t tested it but I’d say around 5,000,000,000 mpg.

Kidding.

Here’s how it’ll work:

Air will fire, kickstarting the generator.

The generator will go to the battery, which does two things: send power to the wheels and also power a turbocharger that rams air into the air tank. Like a F1 KERS system.

Meanwhile, the green driveshaft is powering the wheels alongside the electric motors. Not that much air power, but about 6 turbines and air tanks and you have a car that will rocket off super fast.

I suspect that when the batteries are flat, the car will slowly accelerate to ~15 MPH then the motors will kick in and it will rocket off into space. Then it won’t do a cold acceleration until the batteries go flat again.

I need to build some sort of working model, small-scale, like a wooden cart with those engines. Just to see.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 22:48

You’re trolling me. I give up.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 22:52

Perhaps you are skilled in other areas. I may be speaking complete gibberish to you, but to other engineers, I would be making perfect sense. I’m not calling you stupid, I am calling you uneducated in a minor specific field of engineering. You could most likely outsmart me in other fields, but at least I take this one.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 23:01

Except there are other others explaining why it won’t work, or that it would work very poorly? I’m not the only one shooting your idea down here.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 23:02

Well, it will work for me. I hope.

CB > JohnH3ASP
03/08/2017 at 23:03

Good luck.

JohnH3ASP > CB
03/08/2017 at 23:04

Thanks. Now, onto F1. Any predictions?

tromoly > CB
03/08/2017 at 23:18

I knew it all along, just playing the game to see how deep of a hole can be dug.

CB > tromoly
03/08/2017 at 23:38

It’s a deep hole.

tromoly > CB
03/09/2017 at 00:07

The second law of thermodynamics is lost on some people, makes for some great reading and/or lots of face palming.

CB > tromoly
03/09/2017 at 00:26

Yuuup. I counter-propose a car with a wind turbine on the roof, so that way when the car moves, the air will turn the turbine, create electricity, and power the car forever.

pip bip - choose Corrour > JohnH3ASP
03/09/2017 at 05:23

close enough?

JohnH3ASP > pip bip - choose Corrour
03/09/2017 at 05:41